(Not So) Deep Sh*t with Chris & Steve
(Not So) Deep Sh*t with Chris & Steve
(Not So) Deep Sh*t on Simulation Theory (Part 2)
We had a bit of a break there, this episode should have come out in late August, but we're back with the second part of our discussion on Simulation Theory.
What if the seemingly small inconsistencies in our memories hint at a reality much more complex than we ever imagined? Join us as we challenge the boundaries of perception and reality, starting with the intriguing Mandela Effect. We explore instances like the collective misremembering of Nelson Mandela's fate and the puzzling case of the Sinbad genie movie, "Shazam." These discrepancies lead us to question whether our memories are mere flaws or if they suggest the existence of parallel realities or even a simulated universe.
Through captivating discussions, we ponder if the very fabric of our existence is shaped by the mind's intricate dance between memory and emotion. With references to the Natalie Holloway case and religious memory feats like the Quran's memorization, we examine how suggestibility and perception intertwine. Our conversation spans philosophical and scientific realms, from non-linear time influenced by gravity to subconscious actions preceding conscious awareness, inviting you to rethink the nature of free will and the potential for simulation theory to explain déjà vu, glitches, and more.
As we conclude, we venture into the world of dreams and consciousness, drawing parallels between lucid dreaming and simulation theory. We reflect on the fleeting nature of dreams and their potential role in our brain's rebooting process, contemplating whether our reality is as concrete as it seems. With insights from quantum physics and anecdotes of past life memories, we challenge materialism's hold on our perception of reality, questioning if indeed, life is a series of repeated simulations with unknown outcomes.
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I'm Chris, I'm Steve and we're talking about some deep shit, and we're back to talk about some more deep shit. How's it going, steve? Hey, how's it going, chris? Good, we're going to pick up our conversation where we left off. And simulation theory yeah, I love this topic.
Speaker 1:It's so mind-blowing. It is mind-blowing. So if you missed our last episode, go listen to that. First, because we kind of set the stage for simulation theory and what's it about and some concepts of it. And now it's interesting. Let's look at some of like the weirdness, the things that people talk about, that kind of support simulation theory. So first up is the Mandela effect.
Speaker 2:Yes, so different people have different thoughts on it, but explain what it is Chris.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the Mandela effect, broadly speaking, is when different people have a different recollection of reality as it occurred, and of course, oftentimes this is just discounted as faulty memories.
Speaker 2:And the Mandela effect is supposed to be evidence of a simulation theory.
Speaker 1:Or a possible evidence of something that we learned in a simulation or something right, right, and it's named that way because Nelson Mandela. Some people have a very strong memory and again it's a memory, and it's a memory that they cannot support with established fact, because anytime they google it, their memory is that nelson mandela died in prison in south africa, when the reality is in our world that Nelson Mandela did not die and he got out and he later became president of South Africa. But there are people who say quite like strongly and say no, no, no, no. I remember them announcing he died and they're confused as to why reality doesn't match up with their recollection. And now that's been kind of dubbed the Mandela effect. What are some other Mandela effects? Fruit loops as a Mandela effect, some people say it's spelled a certain way, right.
Speaker 1:Yes, some people have a memory of it being F-R-O-O-T and some people have a memory of it being F-r-o-o-t and some people have a memory of it being f-r-u-i-t what is fruit loops?
Speaker 2:now can you look at a fruit? I think it's spelt fruit, like regular fruit.
Speaker 1:That's what I remembered, but I don't you know. It's interesting, I I ate fruit loops a a lot. That was my cereal.
Speaker 2:Oh, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:No, it's.
Speaker 2:F-R-O-O-T Two.
Speaker 1:O's. Yes, I ate Froot Loops a lot and honestly I don't.
Speaker 2:I can't say I know, I don't remember. I thought it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and what's interesting is memory is very much tied to emotion. Memory is very much tied to emotion. You're more likely to remember something that you had an emotional attachment to as opposed to something that you didn't really care about in one way or another. So I think that's a part of it is when something happened where people are like no, I have a strong memory. Actually, I have one that I don't know if it's a common one or not. Do you remember the Natalie Holloway situation with Aruba? That happened some years back.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So Jorhan Vandersloot or something like that was the name of the kid who was involved in that, and she went missing in Aruba. Oh, that scumbag. I have a memory and I can't explain it of when I was at my job and at my job I didn't always have a ton to do so I'd be like cruising the internet a lot. Okay, right, and I remember coming across an article and coming across a series of articles about how he had gone to jail in, I don't know, peru or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some other country.
Speaker 1:Because he had committed another crime Right, and I remember like clearly seeing reports that he or something like that because he had committed another crime right, and I remember like clearly seeing reports that he had gotten stabbed and had died in that prison and I.
Speaker 1:the reason why it sticks with me is because I remember the feeling of, on one hand, being like you know he deserved it, you know for what his role in that seemed like, and and another thing I was like, ah, it's kind of a bummer, though, because then now the mother is never going to really know what happened to, you know to, the parents are never going to really know what happened, because the last person who could have told them is now dead.
Speaker 1:And I remember that feeling, and I remember being like, kind of like, you know, torn between being happy about it and being kind of like that's a a bummer. And then, of course, I put it out of my head and moved on, and not too long ago, there were these articles that popped up about hey, johan van der Sloot is getting out of jail and he's like he's done talk, you know he's talked now and filled in some of the blanks supposedly about what happened. And I can't shake that feeling because I remember the feeling. And shake that feeling because I remember the feeling, yep, and it's, it's really strong in my head, like I kind of remember the whole situation.
Speaker 1:Really. I remember coming across the article. I remember googling it some more and finding out you know more about it and determining that it was true, and being bummed out, like I said, and feeling bad. You know, kind of like that's a kind of a good that he's gone, bummer, that you know that happened, and the parent, and then moving on my life and kind of putting in the back seat and then years later to suddenly like he's alive. It's a similar thing. So the way they describe the idea of the mandela effect is are you remembering the same reality as someone else? Because that go back to the idea of the simulation theory.
Speaker 1:Right, so many players. You have to have multiple servers and it's not uncommon in these multiplayer games to move servers for various technological reasons. You know sometimes they have to move servers because of, you know, um, you know, space and memory concerns. Sometimes there's various reasons why you might be playing on a server one day and playing on a different server and generally these servers are. The game world is identical on each of these servers, so you don't know that you're on a different server or at least enough is similar that any changes were in the past and led to the same place. It's that idea that um multiple events could happen on different time streams, but because they're irrelevant events, because they're not that important, like a good example.
Speaker 1:like you get up one morning and you're going to decide whether to have eggs or have pancakes, right, that choice in the scheme of the universe is kind of irrelevant. Whether you choose to have eggs or pancakes on that particular morning is irrelevant. So if there were a world where you picked eggs and then there were another world where you picked pancakes, and at some point you jumped worlds from the one where you picked eggs to the one where you picked pancakes, but that happened a week ago, it doesn't matter, right Like it's in the past now. So whether or not you picked one or the other, you could have picked either and you could still be at the same place now. You could have picked either and you could still be at the same place now.
Speaker 1:And it's that idea that sometimes there's different time streams where something happened on one server that didn't happen on this server.
Speaker 1:So on one server Mandela died in prison, on another server, the way events worked out, he got out of prison and became president.
Speaker 1:So if you were on the one server at that time and you heard about it, and then years passed and at some point in your gameplay you log off the game every night as you go into dream mode, right, and then you come back to the, let's say, the real world and you log back on and it puts you on a different server. And now you find out years later no, no, nelson mandela, he's president, he was president of south africa. It's confusing to you, right, but you'd never find out that you had eggs for breakfast instead of pancakes weeks ago, like there'd be. No, it doesn't matter in the past. So it's only those choices that matter when people suddenly realize it's just an interesting way of coming about it, like I'm not in the same time stream as I was when I had this memory. And of course, the Mandela effect is also just, you know, kind's memories are very influenced by and you know this right, people's memories can be influenced by questioning in certain ways.
Speaker 1:right, you can, you can elicit yes certain people are more prone to this, but you could elicit a certain thing, so it. It's one of those things. How do you prove it? Because every time you look up fruit loops it's going to be f-r-o-o-t, right it. The only place you're going to see fruit f-r-u-i-t is people mocking that to mocking it up to kind of show right what they. You can't prove what people remember right.
Speaker 2:It is interesting when there's the large group of people that are remembering the one thing.
Speaker 2:So right um that's what makes it is it that we are um, as a collective right? So there's one way, there's one way of looking at the simulation theory that I've seen that it's just something that the program just keeps running right and we all, according to that version of the simulation theory, you have free will within it, right? So those choices that are being made, very similar to the way real life is the choices affect the environment, right? So if you're in the simulation theory and that happens and you have affected the environment, maybe it's consequential, maybe it's not right, but it could be. You know every effect. You know, kind of like dropping a pebble in the water, it's going to make. Is it large ripples, small ripples? Something's going to happen, small ripples, something's going to happen, and so I'll tell you when I was looking it up. There's one regarding the comedian Sinbad, have you?
Speaker 1:heard that one.
Speaker 2:Yes, yep, that's a good one, so I'll be honest. I was outside listening to a book or a podcast, I can't remember, and they started talking about that.
Speaker 1:Shazam.
Speaker 2:And I said I remembered it differently, right, but I remembered there was like he was a genie or whatever, right. And I'm saying to myself oh no, this is, and I'm not joking around. I was in the yard and I actually stopped for a minute because and they said it's not real. I said wait a minute, I saw the trailer. I know I saw the trailer. Now I said wait a minute. I saw the trailer. I know I saw the trailer. Now Can't find it.
Speaker 2:Did I see something else Right? I don't know, but there's a lot of people that's what that all say they saw this trailer, or whatever else they say. They saw Right and he was some genie. Or something and they say, oh, you're confusing with Shaq. No, I'm not, because by the time Shaq did that, I wasn't watching those kinds of movies.
Speaker 1:You're not confusing Sinbad with Shaq. I'm not.
Speaker 2:I know who they are.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm a big fan of Sinbad from. There was a football movie that I love. Necessary Roughness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that movie. Necessary.
Speaker 1:Roughness and he was in that. I have the same memory.
Speaker 2:And again, I'm not a big enough fan of Sinbad. No me either.
Speaker 1:Like I'm not a Sinbad fan, I mean, he was already a stand-up comedian. He was a stand-up comedian right, oh, I've seen him.
Speaker 2:I've seen him. Yeah, yeah, I used to love stand-up.
Speaker 1:When I was a kid, rosie used to like going to see him and I went with her once and you know it's okay. I mean remember that movie existing I remember seeing ads for it? I don't remember seeing the movie I didn't see the movie.
Speaker 2:I thought I saw a trailer.
Speaker 1:I saw ads and trailers for it a long time ago and I didn't ever go see the movie or anything. I just kind of like, moved on. And then when I hear it's a man. So that's what makes a Mandela effect. The Mandela effect is one person or a handful of people could be misremembering an event. The question is if lots and lots, and lots of people have a very specific memory. Actually, here's a very interesting one. What is it the lion lays down with the lamb? Is that a real thing in the bible?
Speaker 2:oh, I don't know, you're asking the wrong guy.
Speaker 1:So that's like a trope. The lion laying down with the lamb. It's used all the time as like a biblical reference does not exist. What's it supposed to represent? The idea of like the? The lion the lion laying down with the lamb you know, the, the, the, the hunter and the prey you know, and basically laying down together kind of moment of peace, whatever.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's it but the idea is like it doesn't say that, it says something about some other animal and a lamb, but nowhere is it a lion, lamb. But lots of people have a very, very strong memory of like no, I learned that I. I read the bible. I remember reading that, okay, show it to us. And they can't, because they look all through it. And I actually went on chat gpt and I was like, does it say anywhere in the bible you know, lion lays down with the lamb? It was like no, it says this and it says this and says you know ones that are close. Yep, so does that mean all the people who think that are misremembering it? So here's another interesting thing that I didn't know Apparently, if you are, like I said, amman, the scholar of the Quran in the Muslim religion, you're required to memorize the Quran, like memorize it like the equivalent of memorizing the Bible.
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's part of like your journey, to like get to that point. So you have to memorize the holy book and the reason why. Yeah, so genie, genies cannot change the past and change what happened, because every you know religious person in that religion knows every word. That there's no doubt, because they memorized it and everybody memorized it.
Speaker 2:So it keeps it the same oh, I see, it's a fascinating thing.
Speaker 1:So it's like a, it's like a insulating you in the idea that that there's these genie or whatever creatures that go that time. Yeah, I think they're called jinns. The jinn, yeah, and like that, they mess with time and that can change things. But that book, the Quran, is immune from being changed because every person who I mean that's something I heard them talk about on the podcast.
Speaker 1:But, like our memories are faulty, our memories can be suspect. Like our memories are faulty, our memories can be suspect. So it's very easy to believe that a bunch of people are misremembering something or influencing each other. Right, because you're only going to remember things that you have, like I said, emotion. If you don't have a strong emotion to it, how well are you going to remember it? But if you had, that's why I remember the VanderSloot thing, because I had an emotional reaction to it and I remember that feeling, like I remember it Now. It's also possible that I saw an erroneous story, but I seem to remember, like I didn't just like see one story and believe it and walk, like I looked into it and saw other sources talking about it. Like I have like a vague memory of like looking at different news sources and seeing all these write-ups about, you know, the natalie holloway thing, about how he'd gotten in trouble in peru and he went to prison and you know, and he got stabbed and passed away and all that, and it's like no, that didn't happen. So, um, yeah, mandela effect is fascinating. Any other mandela effects that you can think of? I'm trying to think of this, a whole bunch of them the Lion and the Lamb, is that one.
Speaker 1:The Fruit Loops the Sinbad. But how would you explain that In the simulation reality, like in that explanation, you switch servers In server A Sinbad. Lot of choices are irrelevant. If every choice that people make spins off into a different universe, different time stream, that would get unwieldy. Right space wise it would get unwieldy, it would just eventually. If every choice spun off like two roads, it would eventually become untenable. How would you manage that? In a computer simulation you'd merge different ones down the line that were similar enough to be virtually the same well, a lot of the one.
Speaker 1:Like you had pancakes in one and right in the other, it's irrelevant. It's an irrelevant choice, so you can merge that with a bunch of other breakfast choices that you made a year ago. It doesn't matter and so, but in that little things could be different.
Speaker 2:Here's one that I found that they talk about.
Speaker 2:Alexander Hamilton right when they say that he was not a president. Right, he had something to do with, you know, the founding of the country, but he wasn't a president. He had something to do with the founding of the country, but he wasn't a president. But apparently a lot of Americans believe he was a president. So they say there's a neuroscience explanation which leads you to maybe there's something to the simulation theory. The neuroscience explanation of why there are so many people that believe the same thing is that, well, the simulation theory gets to that, but that you remember that person being a president because your brain, where those memories are stored for presidents, it's there. So you're correlating the two things.
Speaker 1:Because it's lumped in often when you're hearing all the other presidents' names.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but why is it so? They don't know why is it, but they know that you're remembering it as a president, because that's where the memories are stored.
Speaker 1:Neuroscience says that. All right, so we know that you're remembering it as a president, because that's where the memories are stored.
Speaker 2:Neuroscience says that right, all right, so we know that. But why is it stored there?
Speaker 1:You know what I actually think? I'm one of the people. If you'd asked me before, you said that was Alexander Hamilton a president, I would have said yeah, maybe the name just sounds really similar to something else.
Speaker 2:It sounds presidential, but I don't know. So if we are storing memories together with things that aren't you know in fact, true, why are we?
Speaker 1:It wouldn't happen if we all had the shared reality, right? If there was one reality that was shared by all of us, then the facts are the facts.
Speaker 2:Well, here's what they're saying, right, and it kind of goes this is what I've heard and it kind of goes to that Buddhist theory, right, that we keep getting back in and they keep replaying the program. Right? Some of us are enlightened, so we're not in the program anymore, right, but the ones that are, we keep replaying it and we're remembering something from a previous playthrough that happened on a previous playthrough right yeah, yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean it's. I guess it's the way where you want to approach the world like that, whether it's like it's one simulation that they keep running. Or different ones happening, or different ones happening simultaneously, or some combination of the two Right Right, different simulations running and different ones getting, you know, rebooted. Oh, the simulation ended poorly. Oh, nuclear war.
Speaker 2:The whole planet's destroyed All right, let's reboot that one and get everybody back there's kind of strange, too, thinking that I keep saying buddhists but there are probably other, uh, lesser known religions that think the same type of thing. But there is really not much of a difference between what they believe is reality and what we're talking about as a simulation theory, which I guess if it was real it would actually be reality. But you know what I mean? Yeah, the real, physical world that we live in. Buddhists think you do keep coming back Right and rerunning it.
Speaker 1:You know, it's interesting too when you think about that. The concept of time is an artificial construct where time is not the same, whereas time is a function of gravity, right? So if you're on a different planet, time is running the same, whereas time is a function of gravity, right? So if you're on a different planet, time is running differently than here. And so there are people who think they've been reincarnated and they were here in caveman times and they were back in Egypt and then they were in Roman times and then they kept coming back and in our linear mind, this happened first, this happened second, this happened whatever, but the way that science kind of explains it, that all those events are kind of happening simultaneously, which, again, it's mind-blowing how do you get?
Speaker 1:your mind around that. Which kind of? But then that supports the retrocausality, Because if they're all happening at the same time, how can something that happens 100 years after affect something that should have happened 100 years prior? But if time is an artificial construct and it's all happening at once, well then they're all happening at the same time, so they can influence each other. It's only from our perspective, because we're seeing it in a linear fashion, that it seems like the future is affecting the past.
Speaker 2:How do people get their minds around that things are all happening at the same time, yet nobody can see it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the whole idea that time is an artificial construct that not necessarily everyone observes or is hindered by, which would mean that people potentially out there would have the ability to easily appear and disappear at any time they want and, if they had any interactions with the universe directly, could cause changes which would account for all of a sudden us remembering something that happened a different way. It's, it's, you know. And again, if you're of a skeptical bent, you can easily just say all of this comes down to people misremembering things and it's. It's because you can't prove it, because people have a memory of it and they'll. They'll swear up and down.
Speaker 1:They remember Sinbad in that, they'll swear up and down, they remember sinbad in right in that movie, I mean. Or they remember, um, you know, they remember sinbad as shazam, or they remember nelson mandela dying in prison. But obviously, if you google these things, you find out what everyone else you know had kind of remembers, which is no, he lived, nelson mandela was president and of south africa, and sinbad was not right in that movie. You can never, you can never prove it, like it's always going to be your memory against reality and reality trumps your memory, right, except when you understand these deeper principles and you realize well, possibly, but that's not the only explanation. It's a fascinating one.
Speaker 2:It's crazy, and did you look at things regarding Elon Musk with all this?
Speaker 1:On his what on his theories, His just thoughts on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, that's interesting. I mean he's, people have their own thoughts about him. I mean, people have their own thoughts about him. I don't find him to be as polarizing as some people do. I find him to be just, you know, a guy that does what he does, and there's no dismissing his intelligence, no, he's smart and he's had an impact.
Speaker 1:I find him to be interesting. I also find him to be sometimes just like randomly capricious. Like I said I think I said this before like suddenly changing the name of Twitter oh yeah, it's like it wasn't even well thought out, like it wasn't like he came up with a plan and rolled it out. It was like I'm going to change it to this and without any kind of like now dealing with the downstream effects, like he has a lot of times, he'll just like speak like any human, like he'll just talk and he'll say stuff and I don't know, because he's Elon Musk, his words mean something, but sometimes he's just talking out of his ass, like anyone well, I mean, I'm not going to disagree that I think he shoots from the hip, but he does have.
Speaker 1:He is interesting in this regard.
Speaker 2:His ability to contemplate things Right, and you know what he said regarding. You know he said the advancements with computers. You know it's really not out of the realm of possibility to think that we're going to be in a position to do this eventually, right, if we're ever in a position to do this eventually Right.
Speaker 1:If we're ever in a position to do it, then it's a foregone conclusion that somebody before us has already been in the position to do it Right and they did it Right Is the thought process Right Now. It's so much, you know. I'm just looking at my. Besides the Mandela effect, here's another one that comes up off a lot Glitches in the matrix. Have you heard that?
Speaker 2:They're related. Those two things are related, right.
Speaker 1:That's like a glitch, but like visual glitches, like people will sometimes, and I've seen these things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't tell on the videos. I'm like it's just doctored.
Speaker 1:Anything I see in a video, anything I see in the picture, my first thought has to be it is potentially faked. Right, because it can be faked. I don't know enough about video analysis to be able to determine it one way or the other. But that idea of glitches in the matrix, why does something glitch? Well, computers glitch, right, it takes a lot of energy to run a simulation. It takes a lot of energy to run a simulation and sometimes code.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, if you're playing a virtual game, world of Warcraft, occasionally there's a dead body of a monster floating five feet off the ground, apparently because in the computer's mind it thinks it's on the ground and it, you know, a little bit of information is off. So that is can cause glitches in the matrix. And so interesting that that term came along, you know, after the matrix movie, because they explained a glitch in the matrix, which was deja vu. Which brings us to our next one, which is that idea that you've already been through it. Right, we've all had that Right. Right, where you didn't, I didn't, I already do this like you have, like a strong memory, even though there's no way you could have can I tell you that once in a while it's happened to me yeah and it's been so strong that you know I'll, I'll get up and I'll, you know, check my phone.
Speaker 2:I'm like it's today and it sounds crazy, but I'm like wait a minute. No, I know, I just talked to this person and I didn't right. You didn't. However, I think I talked to them last week, right?
Speaker 1:I'm like no, I'm talking right now. You can look through your phone logs and be like no, I guess I didn't but I story right now again.
Speaker 2:I might hear the same story from two different people, and just that could be it. But it doesn't feel that way?
Speaker 1:no, and it could also be what I've heard it explained as deja vu. Is your subconscious mind picking it up a millisecond before your conscious mind does so? Your conscious mind is remembering it for the first time, but your subconscious mind picked it up just a little bit before but gives you the feeling that you had it happened before and if people don't think that's real, there's.
Speaker 2:They've shown experiments right where, if you're sitting there and you want to pick up uh, I have a coffee cup right here like if you want to pick up a coffee cup have you heard of this? Maybe? Yeah, so they've done experiments that, prior to you consciously deciding to pick up that coffee cup, your subconscious is fired. Your subconscious is already fired for you to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's like a pre-'s, like a pre-memory, almost Like you're remembering something that is about to happen because your subconscious is telling you to do it. Do it Interesting.
Speaker 2:That itself I think we should have a topic on, because it's mind-blowing that as much free will we think we have, it's still maybe our free will right, but it's on a different level because you know they've done it. You know people, any little action, the subconscious is firing. They're trying to figure out what it's firing about, but it's firing just before. Right, your conscious brain is firing to do, do, tell your muscle to do it right.
Speaker 1:And you know it's interesting with, with the idea of that in deja vu. What supports that is the sense that because you, you remember the event kind of, but you don't remember exactly when, like it's not like you. You say I had this conversation last tuesday. It's not like that. It's like this conversation feels the same, like I've already been through it, but if you try to nail down in your head exactly when that happened, you don't come up with anything. It's not like you know it's not a specific and that's what makes it so unsettling, is? It's not a specific memory, it's just this vague feeling of but this has happened before this. This set of circumstances has rolled out exactly like this, but usually it's cases where it couldn't be like it's not something that could have happened before.
Speaker 1:It's a conversation that you're having now because it comes up. It's not a conversation. But would the uh? Would the simulation theory support that? Of course it would. This is like you said multiple times of the simulation. The simulation theory support that? Of course it would. This is like you said multiple times of the simulation the simulations running a second time. There's a piece of you that remembers a previous run through Right or or remembers a you know, perceiving something that's happening on a different time stream, as as as.
Speaker 1:Where is that, you know? And and I don't know it's in. Simulation theory also kind of helps kind of explain some of the weird paranormal phenomena. Right, I mean, in a simulated world, in a computer game, there are things that could break the rules. Most things in world of warcraft there are rules to the game. There are rules. Every you know. Certain things work certain ways because that's the rule. But there are programmers who have the power to interact with this world and ignore some of the rules. Their avatar can come in and fully equipped with all the best weapons and stuff and just appear in places. Here's a trippier thing. What's interesting I think about, like paranormal phenomena, particularly sometimes like UFOs and things, two people can be in the same location. One person sees it, the other person doesn't, right, I've heard those stories.
Speaker 1:Now look at it from a simulation point of view. That image is being rendered on my screen. It's not being rendered on your screen like that. We can understand that that? That's even crazy but from a video game point we can understand have a shared reality.
Speaker 2:I don't understand like that part, I can't get my head around, but I've heard many stories of it happening. People, you know adamant, listen, I was right here. This is what happened.
Speaker 1:The other person was next to me and they said no, that's not what happened, right, right no, it's, it's because but and that is explainable and makes sense in a simulation theory because, like a video game, if something is rendered on my screen and not rendered on yours, I see it and you don't. And we you and I here would say, well, that's impossible. Like this, this pen is either on the table between us or it's not. But if we were playing a, you know, multiplayer game, online game like this, and for whatever reason, the pen was rendered on my screen but for whatever reason the data wasn't getting you completely so you didn't see the pen, or it was intentional. Maybe the program has said you know what, we want chris to see the pen and we don't want steve to see it.
Speaker 1:So, like it kind of explains some of this paranormal stuff that goes on. It's almost like things that are outside the simulation, which break the rules of the simulation. But if you're in the simulation you would be at a loss to explain, right, how it happened. But if you understand the simulation from outside of it, then you see it's just we gave that one a little extra oomph, for whatever reason. Ghosts, ghosts and apparitions, right, I mean all of this in a simulation theory is, you know what? This is very lined up to with we talked about the holographic universe. It's a similar, it's that similar vibe. It's really just a different name for kind of the same concept, right, the idea that the, the universe is a hologram and it's all fake and we're all kind of interfacing with this thing it exists because we are all believing it yes that's pretty much what it says, right, we're all experiencing, we're all believing it.
Speaker 2:So it says right, we're all experiencing it, we're all believing it, so it's real Right.
Speaker 1:Right, a shared reality, and if enough people believe something to be true, could it be that if enough people believe something to be true and there's enough power behind that, it makes it true?
Speaker 2:Well, think of that, because that's 100% real. Right, that's 100% real, as much as people don't want to think about it. And here's the most perfect example, right, and I could probably come up with other ones too Money, right, because money, and people are going to say what are you talking about, steve? Right, here's what I'm talking about Money itself has no intrinsic value. Right, we're bartering with currency that we're told has value because the government says it has value.
Speaker 1:Essentially, we're handing pieces of paper and pieces of metal back and forth, and then now digital that doesn't even exist.
Speaker 2:It's not backed by anything.
Speaker 1:It's a concept we all agree on.
Speaker 2:It's a concept everyone buys in on. It's a shared reality, but it's not backed by anything. It's a concept we all agree on. It's a concept everyone buys in on. Right, it's a shared reality, but it's not reality. It's not reality because before money right, I mean people always figured out a way to trade things. Right.
Speaker 2:But trade is very different from money, right, trade is I get a good, you get a service, or I get a good, you get a good. We both trade services, whatever it might be right, money is very different. I give you a good or service, you give me back currency that then I can use on any good or service I want. Right, I don't have to particularly use the one you might have to give back to me. That's how the whole system works. Right. But prior to someone, whoever, a person or a group of people coming up with the money I know a lot had to do with um the uh, the phoenicians and the sumerians they come up with the trade and the money, but prior to that it didn't exist. Right, it didn't exist in the physical world. It didn't. There was. No, nobody was using it. It didn't it.
Speaker 1:All the money is is a symbol, right, right and so, but everyone buys into it, so it works right and it wouldn't work if I said, like, if I suddenly developed chris bucks and it went up, now how much does that cost? Oh, that translates into three chris bucks. So I'll give you this chris buck and we'll be good and people be like uh, no, no, you won't do that.
Speaker 2:And they call the cops right, right so but but if let's say I believed it, I was the only one that believed it and I, and then I. I went to the store and I said, well, I have these crisp bucks I'm going to give you. It takes everyone to believe it.
Speaker 2:We all have to buy right and I know it sounds crazy to say what do you mean? Believe in money? It's not real. I always say that once in a while I'll be joking around with different people and I'll say, yeah, why do we work outside? Money's not even real. Time's a construct Like what are we doing? It's all fake, but you know it's laughable, but you know you've got to do it because that is our reality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Right, got to do it because that is our reality. Yeah, right, and it's our reality because we believe it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right, so we do to a certain. We can all understand that's a very uh, tangible way that we are shared delusion, right, it's what it is reality, but it's not yeah, I mean, if you went back, uh, you know, 10 000 years and you were chilling on Savannah with some whoever was living there at the time and you said hey man, if you go kill that lion, you know I'll give you a thousand dollars. Guy's going to say what the F? Are you talking?
Speaker 1:about. I'm going to give you a hundred, chris bucks.
Speaker 2:No, no, seriously, you can buy stuff with this.
Speaker 1:What are you talking about? What are?
Speaker 2:you talking about Right, and I'm not saying you know. Someone could say well, you know, there were no cars then, but there's cars now. I get it, but money is still just a concept. Yeah, yeah, in the world we live in, it has value, but it has it, you know and there's other things you can come up with with the reasons but it has the value because we all assign it a value.
Speaker 1:Right, you know the general respectability or irrespectability of somebody. You know, if everyone thinks a certain individual is respectable, regardless of their actions, they're just considered to be respectable, where somebody else who may have done similar actions is hated by everybody, or you know that general idea. We all perceive them as the villain. Right, and they are the villain, even though, if you really can't, you know, look at it. What is the difference between a and b? There's minor differences, but not always as many. It's it's, it's, it's our, yeah, it's our forming our reality. Um, let's see here paranormal. So you get ghost telepathy, yeah, similar, um, time slips and temporal anomalies. You know, I mean, there are cases where people will, like have gaps in, like huge gaps in time. You, you know that almost like they're log out of the game and logged back in.
Speaker 2:Well, how many times are you driving right? And as you drive, I know people dismiss it, but you're driving along right, and I think it goes, you know, to the subconscious, where they again has. I think it's very interesting who's in control of the subconscious? We all want to think we have free will, right, which we do. Right. If I want to jump out the window, I can get up and jump out the window if I want. But as much as I want to hold my breath, I'm going to breathe, right. As much as I want to think about, you know, not having to go to the bathroom. If I go to the bathroom, if I go to the bathroom, I go to the bathroom, right. If I want my heart to be, I have no control over it, right, I don't have any control over a lot of aspects of my body or my mind.
Speaker 1:You just don't, but nobody wants to think about that. Some would say that you don't have control over it. Though just because you're, you don't believe you have control over it and you don't exert control over it because there are religious yogis and stuff that supposedly can slow down their heartbeat, can not breathe for long periods of time, because they have total control, supposedly, of the physical body.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:Or the way that was sort of explained in the Matrix is. It's like any computer program Some rules can be bent, others broken is what they explain, explain, and it's that idea that it's almost, you know.
Speaker 1:So. So much of simulation theory. When viewed through a computer viewpoint it has a certain feel to it, but it's the same information that's kind of been transmitted to the various philosophies and religions. Right same con. That general, same concept is we're here in this place and this place isn't the place, it's the place where we're at. But at some point this will end and we will log out to the real place and, you know, be judged and all that different. You know, religions have different ideas on that.
Speaker 2:But what I was going to say about driving. How many times it's? If it hasn't happened to you, then you're. You're different than most people that you're just driving along on a highway or wherever you are. It happens to me on a highway, yeah, Uh, and you say to yourself wait a minute, I don't remember passing all those other exits, Right, what happened?
Speaker 1:You're on autopilot.
Speaker 2:Where did it go, right, what happened? So it's happened to all of us. We kind of just go along Right. But you know, if you stop to think, how did you not get in an accident?
Speaker 1:Right, like what happened, and the obvious excuse for that would be well, you were just zoning out and you missed it.
Speaker 2:That's would be well, you were just zoning out and you missed it.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's fine, right, and that's one perfectly reasonable explanation, right.
Speaker 2:But how did you zone out and perform functions like that.
Speaker 1:So with simulation theory, you could say that you kind of almost like semi-logged out of the game you aren't completely logged out, but you were logged out enough that those things, those exits, you didn't see them because you were on a different track. You were like almost like not expecting to see them, whereas, like, if you're driving down the road and you exit one, exit two, exit three, you expect exit four to be next and it is next because that's how the exits are run right. But simulation theory, you could actually say, if you weren't thinking about it, you could skip from exit three and suddenly be at exit 20. If, if you, if you impose that thought enough and could affect things, you could like zone out and miss all those exits because they didn't happen, because you weren't expecting them. Again, most people would say, well, that's ridiculous, you, you miss them, you zoned out. Say, well, that's ridiculous, you missed them, you zoned out, you went, and that happens as well, it's just.
Speaker 2:Or what if we're all designed to be in the program to perform certain functions right, and those functions are just what we're going to do in the program? We have some free will, but you don't have the free will to not perform the functions the program wants you to.
Speaker 1:And if you, well, you do. But if you don't, then when you end the game, you haven't succeeded at the objective that you were supposed to do. So you got to do it again, right? So in the next run up, you know you were supposed to do X, y and Z. You made a conscious choice not to, even though the game, the universe, the game was trying to get you in in it. I'll give you another. I'll give you a perfect example of kind of.
Speaker 1:To bring it back to video games. In a video game, if there's a certain quest that the game wants you to take, it will try to put it in front of you in various ways, right. But you always have the power not to. You always have the power to run by that non-player character who has the quest, and you just have to talk to him and he gives you the quest. I do this all the time. I don't want to get into that quest because, for whatever reason, it's not of interest to me. So I'll skip past it. Yep, and in some cases I'll go through the entire game and never do that quest. So the universe can put it in front of you. But at the end you do have free will and so, but.
Speaker 1:But when you get to the end of the video game and the game ends and says okay, here we're tallying up your points, you know what? You didn't finish this quest, so you don't get a perfect score. You didn't finish the game 100%. You didn't complete the game because you didn't do that and you can't go back and do it because that has already passed. You know you've already passed that point in the game, so you're going to have to go back and do it again and come in as a different character, because in a video game that's what you would do.
Speaker 1:Very rarely would you come back and play the exact same game. Right, you'd come back and you'd create a new character and approach it. But you might have some of the same goals and maybe that quest doesn't quite look exactly the same because it's a different time period or different whatever, but the general tenets of the quest are still. It's just a fascinating you know how. About just bizarre coincidences and synchronicities? We've all had that right, bizarre coincidences. You're thinking about somebody. Suddenly they call you Right. Or you know the synchronicities where, like, something happens that just is statistically improbable. You know people winning the lottery multiple times.
Speaker 2:That's happening Right, unless you're Whitey.
Speaker 1:Bojo yeah, probable, you know people winning the lottery multiple times, that's right. Like your whitey bojo yeah, that's true too. Um, or just like strange coincidences, you know like, uh, it happens a lot, right, like it's again, the holographic universe uses this concept to kind of support its thing about, you know, coincidences being this the universe working its ways in the simulation theory. It's the same thing, you know, simulation, it's programmed, it's not a coincidence, it's supposed to happen, it's, it's lined up that way, or it's.
Speaker 2:You know, uh, maybe it's just a nudge like you're talking about. They're trying to nudge you to do a certain quest. Yeah, those type of coincidences are. Are the or is the program nudging you to do a certain act or to follow a certain path?
Speaker 1:Right, I like that. You know, as a philosophy, I enjoy that one. Like the idea that we're here to be the best version of ourselves and you have to keep coming back and doing it again until you fix all that. Right, you know you screwed up on that one. You were, you know, you're kind of.
Speaker 2:You're kind of well, I mean I jerk on that one. Yeah, I don't sorry to talk, no you're a jerk on that one.
Speaker 1:You're going to come back and do it again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, try not to be as much a jerk this time I it a lot more humane than, um, let's say, a christian religion where you know you didn't follow all these rules. What happens?
Speaker 1:you, you, you, just you're doomed, right like this is wait a minute. But you know, I kind of tried right well, sorry, you know what rare is the video game that you only get to play once? Right, like most games, you could play it again, right? I always thought that that was just the reason why I didn't ever grasp onto that, because even if you don't go to the bad place and you go to the quote unquote, good place, right, even the best place after a while kind of get boring.
Speaker 2:You would think Like it doesn't matter how good.
Speaker 1:Like doesn't matter how good it is, anything like that. Eventually you'd be like okay, now what? Where that kind of supports the idea that you can't enjoy the simulation? You're incapable of enjoying the simulation or getting as much out of it if you're aware of it, and the only way you can really enjoy the simulation and get out of it what you need to get out of it is if that simulation is indistinguishable from reality. What do you mean? If you're in a game, if you're aware that you're in a game, you're going to behave in certain ways. I play those games all the time.
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny you say that. Have you ever? It happened to me when I was like a kid. If you were in a dream and then you knew you were in, it Did it ever happen to you.
Speaker 1:It happened to me. You can take control.
Speaker 2:Very rarely, but I want to say it happened to me maybe a handful, a little less than a handful of times. It was almost like you could do whatever you wanted. I could even make myself wake up Right Right, if even make myself wake up right right if it was going like really bad.
Speaker 1:Um, but most of the time you didn't know you were in a dream and and most of the time you don't at least me I don't remember most of my dreams no, especially the older I get, so like where was I last night, like as I slept in my bed, I I must have dreamt something, right, I must have been somewhere, in the sense of you know, you're dreaming something. I have zero recollection of it. That's interesting, right. And when you do remember your dreams, you remember fragments. You remember very rarely bits and pieces.
Speaker 2:Do you ever wake up and think you remember your dream, but within seconds it's gone?
Speaker 1:Yeah, If you don't, they say one of the ways if you want to start remembering your dreams, I don't they say one of the ways, you, if you want to start remembering your dreams. I don't know how true this is, but basically when you wake up and you remember your dream right there, and then you have to like get it down, write it down or or something, get it out, get it and review it Because, yes, like you, I have woken up with like a very vivid recollection of the dream and been like, oh, I got to tell Rosie about this.
Speaker 1:And like, gotten up, gone to the bathroom, come back and be like, yeah, I had this weird dream and then just been like I don't remember exactly what it was, but I remember it was weird and I was going to tell you about it. Yeah, and you're like, I just had it yeah.
Speaker 1:It was, and the simulation theory would say, or possibly say, that that altered state of consciousness, your dream state. Maybe that's logging out of the game, because we have to sleep as humans. If we don't sleep, bad things happen. You take a human and just keep them up. I mean, that's how they torture people sometimes is they? Just keep people up.
Speaker 1:And after a while you start hallucinations and just like bad things happen when you don't sleep. So I think of that as like rebooting the computer, you know, like if you, if you have a computer or a phone, anything electronic like that, and you have it on and open and using it for long periods of time, it starts to operate in ways you didn't intend right, so glitches start to happen. What's the best way to stop your electronic device from glitching? Reboot it, shut it down, start it up again. It's like a fresh reboot, right, and it's like our brains need that, like we need that sleep, we need that period of time. We don't remember it. Usually we remember very little. Some people remember more of it, you know, than they do.
Speaker 2:It seems like most people, including me, remember them more when you're a kid.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know, and also when you're a kid, kind of that reality in the dream world are. Like you know, possibly when you're a kid the world is more open so you possibly could dream something and remember it as reality, right, because your grasp of actual reality is not solidified yet. So you dream something as a small child and you're convinced that it happened when it didn't, and that's a way that people will explain away. You know kids who.
Speaker 1:It's interesting too how kids have like just a better memory and like of that stuff. Like little kids will sometimes supposedly remember past lives, like really young kids, like we'll remember, but then if they get a little bit older it's gone, like they just gone, kind of similar to the dream thing. Yeah, you know, I've seen, I've seen threads and stuff or different tiktoks and whatnot of people like talking about like things that their small child said, that like freaked them out, and like people will talk about their small kid just casually saying that they died in 9-11 and saying you, I lived, I lived here and I did this and I did this.
Speaker 1:And in some cases they look it up and they like these facts are real right, like how does this kid know that this particular person existed and lived in this place? And sometimes these kids will just be like really young and they'll just be like oh, I remember, you know, I remember living there and doing real far back things. I remember I remember dying in that volcano and and something like that, and like little kids because they don't realize that it's impossible in our mind, and so they say it.
Speaker 1:But as you get older the materialistic world kind of gets its hooks into you and, almost like the materialistic world tells you that that doesn't exist, that anything outside of material is not real, right. But then quantum physics tells us that even the supposedly real stuff at its core isn't as real as we'd like, right. So the whole materialism thing kind of falls apart at that point that's a religion like any other.
Speaker 1:It's like the religion of materialism, believing that nothing happens, like when we die. Think about this when people I started thinking about people freezing their brains and bodies, you know, to be brought back, and I was like that only works if you assume that the you is the body and when you die you're still in there and you're freezing it. And so someday, if you can cure that disease, you could just unthaw the body, cure the disease and you back up and you know bob's your uncle, you're back into it again, which again only works if that's the way.
Speaker 1:But even that belief is a religion. It is is because if, as some others, believe that there's a soul or something and when the body dies, that thing moves on, then it doesn't matter if a thousand years from now you can cure that disease. Yeah, you'll unthaw that body. It's just going to be a body. It's going to be a dead body, like. I don't understand the leap between. It wasn't like they froze the person, like right before death. They like froze them right, like as quickly as possible when they passed away, and they say, all right, now we're going to store this body, keep it on ice like walt disney. I had this thing once. It's something I don't know. This has nothing to do with anything. They said disney created frozen so that when you google frozen and disney, you'd come up with a movie and you wouldn't come up about Walt Disney as what somebody says. I mean, that's who now? Who knows?
Speaker 2:but no, but that, that idea that like I don't know it's well, you know, it's funny that, as we're talking about it, the idea that your soul goes on somewhere else but your body doesn't soul goes on somewhere else but your body doesn't isn't all that different than the idea that a person a part of a computer program if we're talking about the simulation theory here, right, that if a program is continued to run, right, but you come back, the part of you, that is, the free will of you, comes back and it just gets put into a different program. Right, not necessarily I'm me all the time, the core of me, but the free will of me is me, but I'm put into another program over and over again. Right, that is a little different, but it's not that different than the core of a different religion.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I mean I, I. So one of the games I'm currently playing is called Baldur's Gate. Okay, so it's a. It's a single player game where you, you know, you run around, you do adventures and stuff like that, right.
Speaker 1:But what's great about this game is is the amount of care and programming that's been put into. It gives you a tremendous amount of free will, meaning that when you play this game, you play the story from start to finish. There are choices that you can make that change the structure of how the story. You can be a good guy, you can be a bad guy, and it's not just minor things like in grand theft auto. You can be a bad guy and go around shooting people and be a good guy. I don't know if you'd be a good guy in grand theft auto, but basically, like nothing about the game, world changes in that game on how you act, but in balder's gate they've done it, so the game can be radically different, like two different people can play the game and have radically, radically different experiences and all that's programmed in like almost as if it's two separate games or multiple separate games, because it's like you can come to the game and play a certain way, pick a certain.
Speaker 1:You know you want to be a sword swinging guy, right, but then you can play the game again and you can be like an evil spellcaster and you can make choices in the game that change everything. Now, within limits, obviously, because it's programming, but they do a great job of that. But that's the whole. Idea is that I've played through not through the whole thing, but I've played through parts of it, and then, as I frequently will do, I start a new character because I want to try this out. What if I play as this type of person?
Speaker 1:And I'm seeing how some of the you know, even at the beginning parts of the games, like you can make choices, I can choose not to save this particular person, and then in later parts of the game, if you did save them, that person turns up and you know is integral to the story. But if you let them, didn't save them and you let them die, the story turns out differently because they're not there to do it. It's like really amazing. But it's that same idea of simulation theory, like if I didn't know that I was playing the game, if each time I started playing the game, my memories of the real world, if I was like really into that game, it would be like different experiences.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But some parts would be similar. Oh, they are.
Speaker 1:So it would be similar enough, because again it's limited by you can't have everything be different If I didn't know any. I mean, I know because I'm conscious, so I'm playing the game. All right, this part stayed the same as my last run through, even though last time I was doing it this way and this time I'm doing it this way. I can see where the changes are right this way, and this time I'm doing it this way. I can see where the changes are right. But if I wasn't aware of the simulation, what would that appear to me to be? That'd be like Mandela effects or that'd be like you know, like wait a second. I have a memory of that person dying. You know, like in a video game, you can really understand that, like you could, some person could die and the game turns out differently. And then you play the game again and this time you save them and this time they're around for later parts of the game. But if you didn't know any better, you'd get confused and go wait a second. And actually that will happen.
Speaker 1:If I log out and I'm like playing the different games that I started, games that I started when you first get into them it takes you a while to kind of re-establish all right, we're in this particular run through, what did I do, what did I not do? Because that has an effect on things. It takes a little bit right and so, like it, kind of like simulation theory, if we're going through this again and again, can you imagine if this is just like one sim, like we just keep going through, like the whole? I'm not even just talking about us, I'm talking about the whole history of the world. We're just trying it again and trying it again, see if it turns out different this time. Or are they running concurrently? Maybe they're running at the same time and because time is irrelevant, you could be in those different times and I know again it's a really out there topic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But if someone you know you're listening to this and you say wait a minute, are you saying that someone's running a computer program once every 10,000 years? No, because time for whoever's doing that program if this is to be believed could be really different you could speed up a simulation, you could right, If you want to run a bunch of different simulations.
Speaker 1:Not only can you but if we're all sharing the same speed.
Speaker 2:It's just normal to you, right?
Speaker 1:Well, it's our perception of the speed, because you're in it, right, right, if you're outside of this, maybe this goes through was through like a blink of an eye, right, like, oh my god, you just ran through another 10 000 cycle on on planet earth. Yeah, we did. How'd this one turn out? Oh, not so great, right, they invented nukes again and they destroyed the planet. Damn, they keep doing that, right, you know. But then you can keep running it. And what if we tweak it? What if we take this person out? What if we do this in?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's, it's and I always try to break things down simply to in um. For for our reality to be real right, you have to. To me, there needs to be some things that are known, right, and to me there's enough things that are not known that it pokes holes and you can at least talk about it right? We don't know exactly. Nobody knows how the universe came to be right. Nobody knows how this planet came to be. Nobody knows how the universe came to be right. Nobody knows how this planet came to be. Nobody knows how the moon got there. Nobody knows exactly this theories. Nobody knows. Where did the single cell organism come from the earth? Nobody knows. Nobody knows why we have consciousness. They even know that. No, they don't.
Speaker 2:So, those are the fundamentals of the universe and us and why we're part of it. And nobody knows. There's theories.
Speaker 1:And the theory is, or the thought is, is that we will know when we exit the simulation Right, when we end this run. And again, all the major religions have a component of this and they say you'll know. You end the run. And then you know and you kind of see your playthrough as a third person. And I've actually heard people say you see your playthrough not only as a third person but sometimes as the recipient of your actions. As the recipient of your actions, so that time that you were horrible to somebody, when they play the replay you get to see that through the eyes of the person you were horrible to.
Speaker 1:So you really understand that and then you're wiped again and go back in the simulation again yeah, so I'm coming into the simulation is that birth kind of thing which is so traumatic that wipes your sim, like almost like that's the thing that wipes your sim wipes you from remembering the last thing because it's such a traumatic event.
Speaker 2:It's just a fascinating you know, I was reading about how you know a lot of people before they die they'll say you know their life is, they'll see things from their life as they're dying right. And some people say you know, if you are part of a simulation, that you, that you downloading everything to some, to some server.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is kind of weird how a lot of people say the same thing and we don't hear it from most people, cause then then they're gone, Right, but the people that somehow didn't you know they, they, they came back to life or whatever, they didn't die during that last second They'll tell you oh, I saw all these things when I was a kid and I saw this.
Speaker 1:I saw that it's just weird that everybody experiences the same thing and nobody can ever, nobody ever comes back and explains it all. You know, like I know people, I know I've said it like hey, when I go, when I'm on the other side, I'll come back and I'll let you know what's what. Nobody ever does. No, and maybe it's because when you get to the other side, then you understand why you can't. You know as I said the simulation.
Speaker 1:If you're in the simulation and you realize you're in the simulation and you know you're in the same I'm not even saying realize, you know you're in the simulation that's going to affect the simulation. Right, it affects the experiment. You can't. So you have to be wiped, it has to be fresh, because then you're living that life as that person and making those choices. When you get to the end, it's like ah, you know, we tried the game, tried to steer you in this direction, but you kept going, going here. Well, you think about it. If we.
Speaker 2:If you knew right and I know you're a very kind soul, right, but if you knew that you could get out of this reality, whatever you know, you got to heaven. Whatever you believed in or whatever the reality might be, you knew that ultimate goal could be achieved by being kind to everybody and that is the highest virtue versus something else. Well, everybody would do that. Right, there'll be you. If everyone let's just say you knew that, right, right, the simulation let's say if somebody was putting a simulation, you know they want to see how humanity would react with each other, well, the whole thing would go to go to crap. Right, how humanity would react with each other. Well, the whole thing would go to crap. If they said, hey, you know, you get out of here if you're just kind to each other, well, there would never be another war.
Speaker 1:If you knew for certain what the rules were, most people would try to stay within the rules.
Speaker 2:You'd have stragglers, of course, but for the most part, that would not affect as much as it does now.
Speaker 1:It's you know, and that's, I think that's a sound scientific principle is that you know experiment. For the experiment to be pure, it can't be, it has to be pure, it can't. You can't influence the experiment. And if people knew they were in an experiment and knew exactly, that's why when they have they have control groups, when they have, they have control groups, and all the times they'll tell people that the experiment they're doing is not the experiment they're doing. They'll tell them what the experiment is, but they're actually doing another experiment. Because you can't let the people know what the experiment is or else it'll influence their behavior. So I think a good way to wrap this up and we'll revisit this topic again, it'll probably come at this in other ways, right, but a good way to wrap this up is practically let's assume that a simulation theory is a possible answer. What practical way could people integrate that into their existence, to sort of like in a minor way? You?
Speaker 2:know I don't let me think. Do you have a thought on that? I?
Speaker 1:mean just the idea that, like, let's, if you assumed in a just universe that that's the way we're in a simulation we got to play it, we got to play the game, we got you got to. You're here to play the game. That's why you're here, like you can't opt out, um, but if you want to do it, well, you be the best that. You'd be the best person that you can be. You know within and try to recognize when the game is trying to tell you where to go. If you're not paying attention, it's easy to miss those game clues. So maybe that's a practical thing is slow down a little bit, pay attention to the play experience and be more attuned to see if the game itself is giving you any hints.
Speaker 2:That's true and you know, goes to what we've been told from ancient philosophers about being mindful and just being paying attention to the moment you're in right can unlock a lot of things for you, and it actually does in reality. You know, when I'm mindful of what I'm doing, wow, I have a little. I have more focus on exactly what's happening. I can I have more understanding of things around me. Yeah, it makes sense, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a. You know it's a nice way to think about it, you know, I mean, like you said, we'll never know no, until we exit the simulation. Yeah, but I'll tell you, chris, and we'll find out. Well, I promise I'll come back. If I go first, I'll come back and let you know. Now, there's probably rules against it. Right, there's probably rules against telling somebody not, you can't tell them. They're in a simulation but I don't know, I love this stuff.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, we'll be revisiting this in some in some capacity, but but this has been a great discussion, so hopefully out there you've enjoyed it as well. I hope so. It gives you some stuff to think about and stuff to research.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I highly recommend it's fascinating stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, this has been a great talk. Thank you, Chris.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you and hey, so we're going to wrap things up here and we'll be back with more soon, but more soon. But until then, I'm chris and I'm steve, and this has been some deep shit. We'll be you next time.
